Clean Eating Pitfalls in Midlife & Menopause with Dr. Morgan Francis, Psy.D, LPC

If you’ve ever felt paralyzed by the pressure to make the “right” decisions about what to put on your plate or in your grocery cart, you will want to tune into today’s episode. That pressure you feel is not your fault. It’s the fear-mongering that diet and wellness culture uses on people at any age, but perimenopause is an especially vulnerable time. 

As my guest today Dr. Morgan Francis will share, when you learn to tease out the myths, you have more freedom to tune into your body’s cues. If you’ve been on the dieting roller coaster for decades, the scare tactics might be familiar to you. But for those who have perhaps naturally lived in a smaller body or have never struggled to adjust to body changes, it can feel like serious whiplash. It creates a sense of urgency that prompts us to respond quickly-fearing that something terrible will happen to us if we don’t. 

Dr. Francis helps us spot the signs of orthorexia. While it isn't officially classified as an eating disorder, orthorexia shares many traits with disordered eating. Dr. Francis breaks down how striving for a perfect diet can become a rat race, often making people feel morally superior based on their food choices. On the other hand, it is very difficult for these people to be present when so much of their mental and emotional energy is tied up in making daily food decisions. 

We also tackle the many myths and unfounded advice that bombard women at this stage of life. Trusting yourself and steering clear of quick fixes and health fads is step one.  As we practice embracing our body's natural changes with self-compassion, avoiding giving in to diet culture’s fear tactics becomes easier.

We shift the conversation to body positivity and building balanced plates. Instead of focusing on looks, we talk about prioritizing health in midlife. Adding variety to your diet and finding joy in food is so important. Nourishment should be enjoyable, and intuitive eating helps you trust your body's hunger signals and enjoy food without guilt.

In a world where the media pushes narrow definitions of health and beauty, this podcast episode offers hope for midlife women. It reminds us that our worth isn't tied to how well we can follow a diet, but to living joyfully and authentically at every age.

To learn more about Dr. Morgan and her work, check out her website at scottsdalepremiercounseling.com and follow her on IG at @drmorganfrancis.

Links Mentioned: 

#104 Cultivating Body Positivity & Food Neutrality at Home with Tracey Harper
# 94  How to Trade Wellness Culture For Well-being in Midlife with Christy Harrison, RD
# 86  The Problem with Perfectionism with Alana Van Der Sluys
# 54  ​​Raising the Red Flag About Eating Disorders in Midlife with Val Schonberg RD

TRANSCRIPT

Jenn Salib Huber: 0:00

Hi and welcome to the Midlife Feast, the podcast for women who are hungry for more in this season of life. I'm your host, dr Jenn Salib-Huber. I'm an intuitive eating dietitian and naturopathic doctor and I help women manage menopause without dieting and food rules. Come to my table, listen and learn from me trusted guest experts in women's health and interviews with women just like you. Each episode brings to the table juicy conversations designed to help you feast on midlife. And if you're looking for more information about menopause, nutrition and intuitive eating, check out the Midlife Feast Community, my monthly membership that combines my no-nonsense approach that you all love to nutrition with community, so that you can learn from me and others who can relate to the cheers and challenges of midlife.

Jenn Salib Huber: 0:49

Hey, everyone, welcome to this week's episode of the Midlife Feast. Today we're talking about a big topic, and that topic is orthorexia, which, as you'll learn, is not technically classified as an eating disorder, but definitely shares the stage with eating disorders and is technically a form of disordered eating. And I wanted to invite Dr Morgan Francis onto the podcast, because she is an eating disorder therapist, to talk about the overlap between orthorexia, what it is, what it isn't and why it's often the slippery slope into an unhealthy relationship with food. So this one's a big one. We're talking about a lot of things, but I think that these are really important conversations that we need to have, and I'm really excited to bring this one to you. Hi, welcome, dr Francis, to the Midlife Feast.

Dr. Morgan Francis: 1:44

Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to our conversation today.

Jenn Salib Huber: 1:49

I'm looking forward to it as well, and so I told the listeners a little bit about who you are in the intro. But why don't you tell us a little bit more about kind of your work and how it relates to what we're going to be talking about today, which is orthorexia?

Dr. Morgan’s Expertise and Background

Dr. Morgan Francis: 2:02

Yes, so I am a therapist who specializes in the treatment of body image and eating disorders, sexual health, trauma, anxiety, depression, all the things and I've been in practice for over 20 years and in my practice I see persons coming in that are struggling just with their life. It may be trauma from their past, it may be current things going on and, with regards to our topic today, with orthorexia, there has been this focus for women and men to really be cautious, but in a very fearful way, about their aging process, menopause, and really put this hyper-focus on how much they're eating, what they're eating and how they're taking care of their bodies to a point that it's causing more obsession and compulsive behaviors than it is. Just hey, I need to drink more water.

Jenn Salib Huber: 3:02

Yeah, I had someone describe their experience of orthorexia as this constant pressure to be the best version of themselves that they could be Constantly. I need to eat the best foods, I need to do the best exercise and feeling like they were a bad person or they were doing something really wrong if they weren't.

Orthorexia: An Obsession with “Right” Food Choices

Dr. Morgan Francis: 3:23

Yeah, you bring up two really good points with that statement. One is the perfectionism behind orthorexia you have to be the best, meaning the best food, typically organic or something that's only maybe found in specific markets like a Whole Foods, and then feeling bad if they're not pursuing that perfectionism, and so then the guilt and the shame comes into play as well, making this a really vicious cycle for orthorexia.

Jenn Salib Huber: 3:52

Okay, why don't we define it? So tell us kind of what orthorexia is and maybe what orthorexia isn't, because I feel like it's one of those words that a lot of people have an idea, they have kind of an inclination, but they aren't really sure what it is.

Dr. Morgan Francis: 4:07

Yeah, so orthorexia, just so everyone's aware, is not something that is actually in our DSM, which is the Diagnostic Statistic Manual, which is what clinicians use to diagnose. So at this time we cannot formally diagnose orthorexia. It typically would fall under eating disorders, not other specified sorry about that or EDNOS. And so what that means is that, you know, with orthorexia we're really looking at behaviors. So we're looking to see what a person is doing to become, like you mentioned, like the quote unquote healthiest version of themselves and I use air quotes with that, and we can get into health in a little bit here.

Dr. Morgan Francis: 4:51

But really what we see with orthorexia is this compulsive behavior.

Dr. Morgan Francis: 4:56

So they go to great lengths to achieve that optimal health, so they may be sacrificing their time either with work or with their children, families, friends, and there's this obsession that comes with it.

Dr. Morgan Francis: 5:12

So they're constantly thinking about how they can pursue this big high health. And there's also this idea that I'm better than you, right, like I am superior to you because I am quote unquote healthier than you, because I'm not eating fast food, or I'm not even eating, maybe, carbs, or I'm not eating the typical things that we would see, or because I'm special in this way that we would see, or because I'm special in this way. 

So there's also this kind of a personality piece to it that goes along with orthorexia to put certain body types up on a pedestal and we really don't know truly anything about someone's medical health by looking at them medical health by looking at them. However, we've been conditioned to attribute positive attributes to people that look a certain way, have a certain shape or size, maybe muscle definition, and that's something that the culture has influenced. So typically, persons that are pursuing orthorexia or struggling with orthorexia really are regarded by society as being an expert, even though they may be struggling with this obsession and compulsion around their health.

Fear-Mondering and Orthorexic Influences on Social Media

Jenn Salib Huber: 6:35

Yeah, and I think that it's so important, you know, when we're, especially when we're talking about social media and you know social media is all about presenting the best version of yourself. You know, and for people who are, who are trying to maybe be role models, maybe in a very well intentioned way, often what they're promoting as healthy eating behaviors, you know can be problematic. 

You know, like this, I only eat organic food or I never eat these other foods it can make someone who's following them, looking for inspiration, or look, you know, somebody might just be following them for a recipe inspiration, and then all of a sudden they see this person that they look up to and admire and think is, you know, well rounded, talking about I never do this and I only do this, and it inserts this level of doubt into our own abilities to make decisions. It's like, oh, I don't do that, Maybe maybe I should be doing that, and it's such a slippery slope of well-intentioned behaviors and then, all of a sudden, you have this recipe that you cannot maintain because it is so many rules layered on top of other rules that you know you're down to eating.

Jenn Salib Huber: 7:48

You know only certain foods from only certain places. I think the slippery slope aspect of it is the hardest to, I think, describe, Would you agree? Has that been your experience too?

Dr. Morgan Francis: 7:58

Yeah, yes, I agree with a lot of what you just said, and something that stood out to me was this doubt. So I doubt my ability to trust myself, trust my judgment, trust what's accessible to me, trust my body to even be experts, but just may be living on social media and using their body as a billboard to convince me that the way that I've been living is not good enough and I need to be pursuing these very extreme measures for in the pursuit of health, and if I don't, then something really bad is going to happen to me. 

Right, I may be harming my child, I may be contributing to my medical illnesses, I may be gaining weight, I may be aging faster. So it's really fear-monogering and to me, even if it's well-intended, I still feel that there's a strategy behind the person marketing and selling it to get you to stop trusting yourself and to trust them, and then, when you trust them, they'll sell you what they're marketing.

Jenn Salib Huber: 9:14

Oh yeah, absolutely no. And I don't necessarily mean that the person selling it is well-intentioned. I mean that the person following is following them out of good intention, intentioned. I mean that the person following is following them out of good intention, right, you know, it's like, oh, this person looks like they know their stuff, they look the part, and it becomes really easy to be like, oh, this person does this, I'm going to do that.

The Danger of Extreme Food Rules

Jenn Salib Huber: 9:35

And so what we're really talking about here is kind of what falls under the umbrella of disordered eating, right, so it's not an eating disorder, but the behaviors, right. The behaviors are also not health promoting and they don't lead you to a place of feeling safe and comfortable in your body, regardless of shape and size. They lead you to become preoccupied with what you're eating, what you're not eating, but you're still eating, which is the kind of you know what? 

That messy middle of disordered eating and an eating disorder for many people is that they're like, well, I'm still eating, you know, or they'll feel like, well, I eat all the food groups, but I only eat organic food. I only eat at certain times, and I only only only when you have so many rules in place around what and when you can eat. That doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel safe, right.

Dr. Morgan Francis: 10:29

Yeah, it's not safe. It's completely rupturing a person's safety and ability to be their own sense of agency around their body. And I think that that's really important, because when we grow up in a world of diet culture, we're constantly being told how much to eat, what to eat, what time to eat it. I mean, it's monitored and so it's this, but to the next degree with orthorexia. And yes, I do agree with you, it does fall under disordered eating, not necessarily the eating disorder, like I said, like not yet.

How Parents Can Perpetuate Othorexia Mentality 

Dr. Morgan Francis: 11:04

What I see also as a big problem is how parents are feeding their children with the orthorexia mentality. Right, so my child has the best you know, my child can only eat certain foods. Now, I'm not referring to like allergies or gluten intolerances, that's not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to really putting your child on very strict and essential diets. Really is what we're seeing and normalizing that and it's not normal and it's not accessible to everybody.

Dr. Morgan Francis: 11:41

There's so many factors that go into feeding your child, money being the primarily the one, the first one, and so you know, and again, it's putting, it's putting your child on that pedestal and you on that pedestal. Oh, look what a good mother I am, because my child only eats, you know, vegetarian or only eats meats and it's and it's organic and it's grass fed and it's Wagyu and all these things. I mean it's just it's gotten out of control and I I do feel that there is a lot of really unnecessary pressure, um, for moms with this, and I feel I have a lot of empathy for moms that feel this sense of pressure to feed.

Jenn Salib Huber: 12:25

I feel I have a lot of empathy for moms that feel this sense of pressure to feed their child or their toddlers perfectly. Yeah, I've shared this story before about my own experience, but my oldest now is almost 17. But her first birthday cake was gluten-free, dairy-free, sugar-free, and the one was made out of blueberries, and I, you know, really believed that that was the healthiest thing I could offer her. Yeah, you know, and now it's just like I'm. The only thing I'm thankful for is that she's too young to remember. It, you know. But it, you know, it really was like there was no question in my mind that this was the only cake option I can relate to that so much, and I think a lot of parents can.

Dr. Morgan Francis: 13:08

And again, I think that goes back to what you said a moment ago, like it's well-intended, right, like you really trust in and believe that you were doing the right thing for your child, and now you can look back and think, I mean, it wasn't necessary, there wasn't anything necessary for me to do that, you know. And so I think that that's the key piece. It's like your child's still thriving, whether or not they have that type of cake or one from Dairy Queen, you know, like they're still doing just fine, right. So I think that that's the that's what we have to remember. There's so much to help our children with and, again, well-intended, but we have to look at the background of that.

The Vulnerability to Orthorexia in Perimenopause

Jenn Salib Huber: 13:52

Yeah. So I want to talk a little bit about perimenopause and menopause, and I was reading a study the other day that was comparing the criteria although it's not diagnostic, but the criteria the behaviors associated with orthorexia, and found that it was showing up more often in people who were going through perimenopause compared to their premenopausal counterparts. And we have quite a bit of data now to tell us that perimenopause is a window of vulnerability for body image dissatisfaction and eating disorders. So it makes complete sense that we would also see these orthorexia type behaviors coming in. But I'd love to talk to you about what you think are some of the things that we need to be maybe warning women about. You know, as they go into this age and stage, like what, what can they prepare or what can they look out for, so that maybe they're a little bit more insulated from the influences of diet and wellness culture and maybe a little bit more protected from it.

Dr. Morgan Francis: 14:58

Well, the first thing that comes up for me is that there's not much research, and so I think there are. I have seen lately some medical providers be more, you know, active with information on social media and I think that's great and I think they're trying to bring up some empirical research to help women navigate this journey. And I also know that there's a lot of weight discrimination and weight stigma in the medical field. 

So I mean, I recently saw someone I follow, you know, saying, okay, like you should take a measuring tape and put the measuring tape around your, your stomach and then your hips and find out your ratio. And if you're in this area, then yeah. And I mean I was actually really relieved to see in the comments like some of the women were like my butt's always been bigger than my stomach since I was nine years old, like that, that's just my genetics and that's never going to change, and I've been this, and so a lot of them were saying no, that's not an. Basically, they're saying that's not an effective way or helpful way to figure out. You know, if I need to quote unquote lose weight or you know my menopause is going to be worse than somebody else's, and they're right, it's not, and everybody's different. 

So I think we just really have to be careful about the messaging and the information that we are taking in and bringing in into our homes, and I really teach a lot of my clients to be their own expert right To be the person like you have so many choices and I want you to get back to trusting yourself and you are allowed to reject the advice from anyone who, including me, who's not in alignment with what you're, with where your life is going. It's, and so I guess I that's a big conversation I just have in and of itself with a lot of my clients and I don't know if I'm answering your full question.

Dr. Morgan Francis: 17:08

I think it goes back to you know, yes, we are seeing an increase with orthorexia traits or symptoms, along with the change, because our bodies are going through a change and that scares us and typically, at this change in life, our body's holding on to more body fat. Our body is changing in ways that society says is unflattering or unattractive. You know, there's this pressure to keep this certain type of figure as you age and again, I think that it's so messed up, it's so, it's so diet, culture, right. I, you know why not. Why aren't we celebrating the fact that our bodies are changing?

The Need for More Grace and Compassion For Our Changing Bodies

Dr. Morgan Francis: 17:50

Or why aren't we allowing and giving ourselves compassion for going through these really intense hormonal changes, while still raising children, showing up for work, you know, putting food on the table, taking care of a home? You know we're doing like. Our responsibilities haven't changed. In fact, they may be getting even more as our children are aging and we're aging. So I feel like, you know, we're so focused on the way that we look we're missing out on having compassion for ourselves that we look, we're missing out on having compassion for ourselves.

Jenn Salib Huber: 18:25

Oh my goodness, yes, I'm a hundred percent on the self-compassion train and you know, I I see kind of two groups of of people as they cross the threshold of perimenopause.

Jenn Salib Huber: 18:35

The first is the group of chronic dieters who are not surprised by the body changes.

Jenn Salib Huber: 18:41

You know, these are people, you know and I was one of them who really were kind of professional dieters, right, and it's all we knew, and so this was just same shit, different day kind of thing, versus the people who maybe have never struggled with body changes, have never really dieted, just always had the kind of quote healthy diet and lifestyle maybe were naturally in smaller bodies or whatever it is.

Jenn Salib Huber: 19:07

But this is really the first time in their life that they feel like they're confronted with body changes that they can't control. And you know, if I had to make a sweeping generalization that is an observation that I've not seen published research on I feel like it's that second group of people who really easily, you know, fall for you know that those influencers who are telling them just do this and you, you know, can reverse the menno belly or you can stop aging, or you know it's, it's almost like their first diet in many ways. 

But because menopause is having its moment and everybody's selling a cure to every symptom, it's so easy because we're vulnerable, right Like. It's so easy to feel like, oh my goodness, I have to do this, if I don't, something really bad is going to happen, and that really bad thing is that I'm going to get fat, old and ugly and irrelevant, right, so it feels urgent.

Dr. Morgan Francis: 20:11

I completely agree with you, and what also came up for me as you were talking is that many of these women, like those first time kind of dieters who are not used to seeing their body change in shape and size and haven't been on the professional dieting you know program like many of us have, are leaning on semi -glutide.

Addressing Medication Shortages Around the Globe

Dr. Morgan Francis: 20:33

So I'm really curious to see the effects of semi-glutide during menopause and premenopausal so so yeah, I feel like that's a whole other podcast, but I agree, and they're not talking they're not, they're not really coming out and saying that they're using it and I mean I I know a lot of people are that are going in through that, that process of I would be I'm going to be really curious about the research and what comes out from that. And we won't get research, you know, for a while I mean, unfortunately, and so we don't know the harm that we may be causing and the damage that could be coming with.

Jenn Salib Huber: 21:18

You know all of the injections that are happening, but yeah, yeah, I'm really curious to see I know, and it is really complicated, because you know it is a very effective medication for diabetes For sure, and I'm sure you see this too but I see a lot of people with diabetes who actually don't want to take it because they don't want to be attached to that. 

You know they don't want to have that association to this weight loss medication and yet it's an appropriate medication for them that could actually improve their health. I had one person tell me yesterday that she's choosing not to start it because she can't access it, that her local pharmacy is constantly sold out, so why would she start something that she can't reliably get? You know, I mean it's crazy. It's crazy.

Jenn Salib Huber: 22:06

I mean I'm not in the States and I think that it is a little bit different. I think the the kind of culture and the whole pharmaceutical industry is a little bit different. But I know that there are shortages around the world. But kind of to your point about women in menopause using this and it's targeted towards them, you know it is targeted towards like hey, you're going to gain weight in menopause, so why not get on top of it? I've actually seen advertising for that and it's like wow, that's predatory, that's not health-focused, that is predatory and is really trying to get people to make fear-based decisions about their health.

Dr. Morgan Francis: 22:52

Yes, I was having a conversation with a medical provider and and he's written tons of books and he's very, very well knowledgeable and respected in the medical field and I was asking him. I said you know, what do you think about it? And so we had a long conversation and I said what do you think about the demographic that it's being targeted towards? And he said without a question, it's being targeted towards 20, 20 through 30 years of age and 40 to 50. You have your women that are trying to get pregnant, and then you have your women that are going through menopause two most vulnerable times.

Dr. Morgan Francis: 23:28

There's no coincidence, and so that really stood out to me, because that's typically the age demographic that I see in my office, that, or people that I know personally that are utilizing this weight loss drug, and someone else I saw someone who's a big influencer refer to it as like a hormone drug, and I don't know.

Dr. Morgan Francis: 23:53

No, we need to accurately. I mean another person's referred to as starvation drug. It's a drug to promote starvation, and so it's really important that we really use the correct terminology for it, even if it is helpful, right, for diabetes and I'm not saying anything negative towards that, because I do have family members that are diabetic and this is something that they need in order to live right. 

So I mean, there are people that really need it and, like you mentioned, they can't access it. And I know, after Oprah's show, many of my clients could not access it because it was sold out. So even if they wanted to continue to use it, they were unable to use it because they couldn't access it, which means if you go off of it, you have to start over from the beginning to continue to use it with the right amounts.

Jenn Salib Huber: 24:48

Yeah, oh, my goodness, I'm going to have to have you back and we're going to have to have a separate episode about all of that. But so let's talk about, you know, the second group, actually all people going through perimenopause, because it's not just the second group. You know, there's often when we're talking about intuitive eating and we're talking about gentle nutrition. You know, there's often when we're talking about intuitive eating and we're talking about gentle nutrition.

Why All Foods Fit on Your Plate

Jenn Salib Huber: 25:10

One of the reasons why I decided to focus on intuitive eating in menopause was because the gentle nutrition principle, those conversations are a little bit more front and center than people who might be a bit younger, maybe not be going through an age and stage where health conversations come up around cholesterol and blood pressure and blood sugar and those kinds of things, and so it's often really difficult for people to separate out the all or nothing thinking, the good and bad foods, when they're trying to make health promoting decisions about food. 

And you know, thinking about orthorexia, this is often where like, well, what is the best food, what is the best diet that I can follow? What is, what are things that I should never eat? And of course, you know there are no good or bad foods and all foods fit and you know all those kinds of things, but what's some of the language or kind of what would be some of the ways that you might talk to somebody about trying to have a more inclusive relationship with language and food, especially when talking about gentle nutrition?

Dr. Morgan Francis: 26:11

Those are great questions. So one of the things you mentioned, like when it comes to gentle nutrition and what we see with intuitive eating as a side note you mentioned, like when we're going through menopause or when we're in the aging process, we're looking at our cholesterol, maybe our iron, um, you know, liver enzymes. We'll do potentially like a hormone panel or a blood panel. When I see it in younger groups, it's about bloating, right? So how do I make sure I have a flat stomach? Right? So that's really the the, the language is I. I need to stop feeling being so bloated. 

That tends to go away when you are in your 40s and 50s. Not the bloating goes away, but the focus goes away. So, again, it's really important to recognize how this is marketed to different demographics, right? So bloating for the younger generation, medical for the older generation. So loading for the younger generation, medical for the older generation. 

So with the older generation, yeah, I mean with gentle nutrition, and I think you know when I use the like health in quotations, how I define healthy eating is volume and variety, right? So many medical providers will say, okay, you need to remove, you know a food group you need to remove these items or a food group, you need to remove these items or these food items from your intake.

Why a 1200 Calorie Just Won’t Cut it

Dr. Morgan Francis: 27:32

Um, I'm actually the opposite. Let's add in, let's try something out and and bring in variety. I don't know about you, but I'm a creature of habit, so I tend to eat the same things over and over and over again, and that's just like convenience, really, and so it's been really important for me. It is my own personal issue with food to get variety as much as I can in a day or in a week, and it may not be a lot, but there's a couple items added in that I typically wouldn't have.

 And so also volume making sure we are getting enough to eat. I can't tell you how many women I know that are not eating enough and think that they are eating way too much because something was based on a 1200 calorie diet and or this is what we were told back in the nins and it's just, it's so ridiculous. So for me, gentle, nutrition is how can we have volume and variety and also fun, Like food should be fun? Yeah, food should be fun.

Jenn Salib Huber: 28:43

Food should be 100% fun. It's an opportunity for pleasure every day, multiple times a day. You know when we can really welcome that and you know I talk about it in very similar ways. But you know and I say like lead with satisfaction Ask yourself what you want and then add in the variety and the balance to your plate. Like you can say yes to what you want at every single meal and still be quote, unquote healthy, right, you know it's getting out of that all or nothing thinking or that like salad doesn't count if you have it with bread. It's like you know the nutrition and the vegetables doesn't go away. Like if you have it with something else, you don't have to have like the boring salad for it to count as salad. Have it with something else. You don't have to have like the boring salad for it to count as salad.

The Urgency and Pressure in Midlife to “Fix” Your Body

Jenn Salib Huber: 29:29

But yeah, I think it's like for a lot of people it is that urgency around okay, I'm in midlife, you know shit's getting real, I've got to like get this under control or I've got. And because the only way that they've ever been taught to think about food is with the diet mentality, they just immediately go there on like hyperdrive. It's like, okay, I'm all in, I'm only eating this. I'm never eating this. 

And it's a slippery slope, like I said, especially if you're following people who are teaching you and modeling those behaviors in a way that isn't health promoting, but you see them succeeding because you just see a snapshot of their life. It gets really, really complicated. So I guess what we're both trying to say is to anybody who kind of feels like they resonate with this you're not alone, it's not your fault, and there are ways to have healthy relationships with food that are still promoting your health, right? You don't have to have rules promoting your health, right? You?

Dr. Morgan Francis: 30:28

don't have to have rules. Yes, and it's so refreshing to hear you know someone like yourself. Talk about this too, because I know you get it and that's exactly what we're both saying. We're both saying to give yourself like that unconditional permission, right, right, like that isn't part of intuitive eating principles and it goes back to that body trust, to trust your body, because diet culture, what we see on social media, it ruptures that trust. So, yes, I'm completely in alignment with everything that you are saying.

The Missing Ingredient in Midlife According to Dr. Morgan

Jenn Salib Huber: 31:02

Oh, my goodness, Thank you so much for this conversation. I know that it's going to be really helpful. We've not talked about it. We're, I think, well over a hundred episodes at this point, and we haven't actually talked about orthorexia. So I'm I'm really really grateful for your time and your expertise. And so, before we kind of wrap up, I always love to ask people what do you think is the missing ingredient in midlife Orgasm? Oh, that's a good one.

Dr. Morgan Francis: 31:30

That was the first thing you, when you asked me that earlier, I was like the first thing, I was like orgasms, like we need to be moving, need to be having more orgasms, like that, to me, is what's the missing link.

Jenn Salib Huber: 31:41

And yeah, I don't think you'll hear any argument from anyone on that.

Dr. Morgan Francis: 31:46

So that's awesome.

Jenn Salib Huber: 31:47

I don't think you'll hear any argument from anyone on that, so that's awesome. So where can people find you? You're in the States, where are you? California? I'm in Arizona, arizona, close enough. So where can people find you if they want to learn more from you?

Dr. Morgan Francis: 32:03

Yes, so I'm on social media, instagram specifically under the handle Dr Morgan Francis, and there's plenty of free, available information downloads that they can have, like how to build body confidence, how to have boundaries. I have webinars, I have a couple online courses, so access to any information if they want to work with me and, of course, if they are in Arizona, then I can see them for patients, but I'm only licensed in Arizona.

Jenn Salib Huber: 32:36

Awesome. Thank you so much and, like I said, I'm sure we'll have you back.

Dr. Morgan Francis: 32:41

Oh, thank you so much for having me. It's honestly been a great conversation to have, so thank you.

Jenn Salib Huber: 32:47

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of the midlife feast. For more non-diet, health, hormone and general midlife support, click the link in the show notes to learn how you can work and learn from me. And if you enjoyed this episode and found it helpful, please consider leaving a review or subscribing, because it helps other women just like you find us and feel supported in midlife.