Can you imagine a world where food choices are driven by joy, not fear? Today I’m joined by non-diet, weight-inclusive dietitian Abbie Attwood to explore the three most common roadblocks to intuitive eating. We dive into the "messy middle," that tricky space where you’ve left behind diet culture but haven’t yet found your sweet spot with your eating habits. 

These common hiccups include the impact of fear-based nutrition messaging, the discomfort of navigating a world without food rules and managing feedback from those who don’t understand your decision to step away from dieting.

Perhaps most importantly, we highlight the critical role of self-compassion in moving past these roadblocks. Whether you’re struggling with emotional triggers around food or looking for simple ways to easily make decisions, this episode will help you move closer to food freedom and body acceptance. 

To learn more about Abbie and her work, be sure to visit her website at www.abbieattwoodwellness.com to find her podcast The Full Plate, or follow her on @abbieattwoodwellness on Instagram.

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TRANSCRIPT

Jenn Salib Huber: 0:00

Hi and welcome to the Midlife Feast, the podcast for women who are hungry for more in this season of life.

Jenn Salib Huber: 0:06

I'm your host, Dr Jenn Salib Huber. I'm an intuitive eating dietician and naturopathic doctor and I help women manage menopause without dieting and food rules. Come to my table, listen and learn from me trusted guest experts in women's health and interviews with women just like you. Each episode brings to the table juicy conversations designed to help you feast on midlife. And if you're looking for more information about menopause, nutrition and intuitive eating, check out the Midlife Feast Community, my monthly membership that combines my no-nonsense approach that you all love to nutrition with community, so that you can learn from me and others who can relate to the cheers and challenges of midlife. Hi everyone, welcome to this week's episode of the Midlife Feast.

My guest today is a fellow non-diet weight inclusive, intuitive eating dietitian, Abbie Attwood, and I love the opportunity to talk to other non-diet dieticians because we kind of get to have a conversation about not just surface level intuitive eating questions, but we're able to dig into maybe some of the challenges that we hear and see all of you going through as you're trying to move away from diet culture, and that's exactly what Abby and I get into today. So what I asked Abby about was what are some of the things that get people stuck when they're in the messy middle, as I call it.

So I describe that when you become an intuitive eater or decide that you don't want to subscribe to diet culture's rules anymore, you reach a point where you know there's no going back, because you cannot fathom going back into that world of diet culture. And yet this land of food, peace, this promised land, feels so far off in the distance that you just can't imagine what it looks like. And so we can have all of these little doubts or disruptors or even just outright obstacles get in the way of that. So Abby and I talked about three of the most common ones that we encounter and we share. You know, just kind of some of our experience and some of our advice for you. So I hope you enjoy this one.

Meet Abbie Attwood: A Non-Diet Approach to Midlife Nutrition

Jenn Salib Huber: 2:34

Hi Abby, welcome to the Midlife Feast. Hi, jen, so glad to be here. I know I'm so excited. We're really smiling right now because we've actually already been talking for 15 minutes and I just had to say, okay, we have to record because I feel like this really could probably be like a three hour special, but we're going to try and condense it into what I think is going to be an awesome conversation about some of the let's just call them challenges that intuitive eaters face on their journey. But before we get into that, tell us a little bit about you. Who is Abby?

Abbie Attworod: 3:07

Oh my God, what a question. Right, like, where do I start? Okay, let's see who's Abby. Well, I am someone who is now currently in this season of life.

Abbie Attwood: 3:21

I own a private practice where I work with clients on nutrition and body image counseling from a anti-diet, weight-inclusive, fat-positive, trauma-informed perspective, and a lot of that is rooted in self-compassion work. But where I was before, this is someone who grew up with like a really major identity and struggled a lot with neurodivergence that kind of went undiagnosed for a really long time. So all of that's to say that I feel like I and kind of a hat tip to your podcasting like I feel like I aged really quickly overnight in my early 20s if that makes sense.

Like I feel like I had to grow up suddenly and become I don't know. I think a lot of us experience that if we've had to do some really hard trauma work and healing and recovery, like I think it forces you, it ages you in a lot of ways from a wisdom perspective, but also just it's exhausting and it forces you to kind of come head to head with like what's underneath all of this stuff and so, anyways, that catapulted me into eventually switching careers and going back to grad school to do this work.

Abbie Attwood: 4:57

Originally, I was working in health policy at tech companies and, yeah, now I, yeah, yeah, big shift. Um, I'm a dog mom, I love my puppies uh, married to a husband who's you know ever, you know, annoys me constantly and I love him to death. Um, but yeah, it's, it's a good life, jen, it's a good life, but I, yeah, I've been through a lot and I think that's why I love doing this work, because I I resonate with people who who've had to do really hard things. You know, and this is one of those hard things Healing our relationship with food and our body is a very hard thing is a very hard thing.

Jenn Salib Huber: 5:48

It is. It is, oh my gosh. And one of the things that I love about all of the content that you put out your podcast, you know, what you put out on Instagram is is your compassion really shines through. Everything like you, it's very clear that not only are you speaking from lived experience, but you are very, very rooted in compassion, and I think that that is that is definitely something you should be proud of, because, you know, in this non-diet space, there's a lot of people who try and co-opt it, um, who try and use it, um, you know, because it's the buzzword

Uh, I'm not going to name names but major companies that say they're not a diet, when they're clearly a diet. You know that kind of stuff, and when somebody has lived it and walked the walk, it really shines through, and so I really appreciate the content that you put out there. So thank you for the work that you do.

Abbie Attwood: 6:37

Well, let me just say right back at you I really appreciate what you're doing and this intersection that diet culture has with what especially women go through in midlife is it's big, and so to have this space dedicated to that is so important and I'm so glad you've created that safe space. And thank you for mentioning compassion, cause like I really think that it's when I think about myself and my life and everything around that, like I feel like compassion is my top value. So it's always really nice to hear that what you feel is also what's being felt by others. So it's that really means a lot to me.

The Messy Middle of Intuitive Eating: Getting Unstuck

Jenn Salib Huber: 7:18

Very genuinely so, thank you. So when we talk about, you know, this intersection of midlife and intuitive eating and undieting and non dieting, so many people get to midlife and it was it, this was me as well, this was my own experience. But get to midlife having already spent 80% of our life on a diet and it gets it feels really hard. You know, when you get to this place and you're like, okay, everything else in my life has either mostly lined up. Or you know, when you get to this place and you're like, okay, everything else in my life has either mostly lined up or you know I'm figuring it all out. Why am I still trying to figure out food, like, why can't I figure out this? What feels like should be a basic thing.

Jenn Salib Huber: 7:58

And so when people start on an intuitive eating journey and it is a journey sometimes I hate that word, but that is what it is, I know, I know. What other word can we use? I want someone to invent a new word, because I actually feel like I twitched now even when I say it, because it feels more woo than I like to identify with in general. So I'm trying to find a new word. Adventure sounds a little too, I don't know too adventury, but you know, coming back to this, this journey that we're on, most people I think that I work with feel really excited when they start, feel really empowered.

They're not dieting anymore, they're, you know, deleting their food tracker. They're going to start eating intuitively, but without fail. They end up at some point in what I call the messy middle, which is you've moved far away from dieting to know that you can't ever go back to dieting and yet this magical land of a peaceful relationship with food feels so far off in the distance that you can't see it. So I wanted to have a conversation with you about what are some of the things that you have noticed, and we talked a little bit about these.

Jenn Salib Huber: 9:16

But you know that get in the way of intuitive eaters feeling like they're actually doing it. Air quotes right. Eaters feeling like they're actually doing it. Air quotes right, because there's so much, there's so much going on around us when we're trying to eat intuitively that you really have to be able to put your blinders on. So, with that said, let's dive into the first one. Let's talk about everyone's favorite nutrition fear mongering, because that is alive and well on social media. That that needs we need to talk about that. So what? What are your thoughts on the fear mongering around nutrition Gosh?

Overcoming Nutrition Fear Mongering on Social Media

Abbie Attwood: 9:56

wow, it's a good question. So I I really come from a place of like, I don't think fear has any place in our approach to food, and I also think fear makes it really difficult for us to make decisions, and that applies to food and in all aspects of our life. Like, if you think about what it feels like to be afraid, that's like a survival instinct that kicks in in the brain and the body right, like that's that fight or flight or freeze response.

And so, as long as we are being inundated with these fear based messages about nutrition and foods and what's the right choice and the wrong choice, and this food is going to give you this disease and this food's going to give you this disease and this food's going to cure this disease, and all of these really catastrophic black and white, all or nothing, really extreme, let's say claims only serve to further disconnect us from our own instincts. Right, like what feels good for our body, um, which is going to be different for every person, and I think that's a really important thing to hold close.

Abbie Attwood: 11:08

So my thoughts I hate it, jen. I really hate the fear mongering. I like it's, but I do tell people like, if, if the information you're seeing online makes you feel scared about eating something. That's a red flag. That's a red flag to me that the person who's sharing that information is not a coming from a place of evidence based information about nutrition, because you and I both know that there is no black or white in this space.

Abbie Attwood: 11:42

It is a really nuanced space and it's also a small piece of the pie when it comes to our health outcomes, which is surprises a lot of people, and so to me, it's a red flag that that person doesn't really know what they're talking about and is potentially trying to sell you something. Usually, that's an underlying you know, right? So you know, follow my protocol or buy this supplement or whatever it might be.

Folks, mentally and emotionally, you know, and I know you are a dieter yourself. I mean, do you feel like, if you look back at every diet you've ever done, a lot of every one of those diets was probably based around fear of some sort of food or food group or something like that?

Jenn Salib Huber: 12:35

right, yeah, I mean, and that's kind of I always say that the rules of the game just keep changing.

Abbie Attwood: 12:44

Oh yeah.

Breaking Free From Food Rules and Embracing Preferences

Jenn Salib Huber: 12:45

Diet culture is playing the same game that it has played for however many years, but they have to keep changing the rules so that it looks like it's something new, but it's not. It is literally same shit different day but it's not. It is literally same shit different day. And the fear mongering you know. You hit the nail on the head that when we make decisions out of fear, we never feel confident about them, because when we're making a decision about fear, we're choosing to move away from something, we're not moving towards something.

Jenn Salib Huber: 13:16

And I think that that's such a big distinction because when you're thinking about your health which is always going to be a long term goal, unless we're talking about, like stitches or something you know, anything that is a long term health goal, even if it is largely influenced by nutrition and those are very few situations it's still not going to be a quick fix. It's still not going to be a quick fix. It's still not going to be something that you can start today and end next week. We have to be thinking you know what do?

What will I want to do this in 10 years, in 20 years, in 30 years? And it's so hard when you're in that fear space to think beyond tomorrow, because that's how our brain is wired. Fear means immediate fear and consequence. I need to make a decision right now because something really bad is about to happen, and that is never the case with food and nutrition. We never have to make decisions like that.

Abbie Attwood: 14:12

Yeah, I love that you brought that in, because it's like that sense of urgency always exists alongside fear. And I think the other thing that kind of lurks in the shadows of fear and urgency is shame, right, and so like so much of the fear mongering information out there about food really instills in us so much shame, so much guilt, so much self-doubt, and what that does to a person is so so detrimental to their well-being, right, and I think like it prevents us from accessing a level of self-compassion and grace for ourselves too when we're existing in that fear-based place. And you know, I'll add, one other thing is like we're talking about kind of the mental and emotional, but like there are some real physical consequences to like the fear-mongering around specific foods.

And like I just off the top of my head, I mean, I think over the last several years there was a lot of fear-mongering about gluten, right, and for someone who has a diagnosed celiac disease, it is a very good idea to avoid gluten, right. That is important For everyone else, eh. And here's the thing, because there's absolutely nothing dangerous about gluten unless you have an autoimmune condition that necessitates specifically celiac disease.

Abbie Attwood: 15:36

To be clear, there's a lot of people out there that will claim that if you have autoimmune diseases in general, you should avoid gluten.

Abbie Attwood: 15:42

That is not what the evidence shows. But just as an example of what this does to somebody who doesn't actually need to be avoiding gluten is, let's say they eat something with gluten. They're so stressed and afraid when they eat that food because all these influencers have told them like this is going to kill you, this is going to give you this disease, this is going to give you a GI issue, that they feel a lot of symptoms with eating that food. And so then they decide like, rationally, it makes sense to me why somebody would decide, if they feel that way, okay, I'm going to avoid gluten.

But then what happens is that actually could be masking another underlying health condition, like if you're blaming symptoms on gluten but you're not actually looking for what's going on. You can be making this assumption for 10, 15 years when there's something like another allergy that you have or right, like it's just. I guess my point is it takes us so far away from ourselves, but it also has physical consequences.

Jenn Salib Huber: 16:41

Yeah, and food is something that we have to make decisions about every single day, multiple times a day, and sometimes for other people. We don't need fear being brought into that if it's not going to serve a purpose. If you have a child with an anaphylactic allergy, there's a certain amount of healthy fear there that's going to help to keep them alive. But if you are fearing foods and every decision is filled with angst and worry and regret and, as you say, shame, it is just so hard to ever feel like you're getting it right and that's just that's not good. That's not good and it doesn't help us. It doesn't help us to improve our health, which is ultimately, I think, what most people are trying to do when they're making these decisions right.

Abbie Attwood: 17:31

Totally.

Jenn Salib Huber: 17:32

Yeah.

Abbie Attwood: 17:33

Oh my gosh.

Jenn Salib Huber: 17:34

Yeah. So let's move on to the second thing, which is that when we're coming from dieting culture and when we're coming from or even wellness culture, where we have followed a plan, a set of rules, a framework of do this, don't do that, there's comfort in that I acknowledge that there's.

There's ease, there's a bit of decision fatigue that is relieved by having this list of rules, and for intuitive eaters, especially when they start to maybe get to the place where they're ready to start thinking about gentle nutrition again, where they're starting to want to explore specific foods or patterns of eating for health, without a set of rules it feels really uncomfortable and so that I feel like is that one of those messy middle points of I don't know what to do because I've only ever followed someone else's rules? Is that something that you've seen too?

The Role of Compassion in Healing Your Relationship with Food

Abbie Attwood: 18:32

Yeah, absolutely. I think this is a really hard place to be, because if you've followed some kind of plan for a really long time, a lack of a plan feels really scary and like we can, you know, just all generally acknowledge that, like, uncertainty and change are both really uncomfortable things for us as human beings Right for us as human beings, right. So just the change itself of moving away from that kind of plan, those kind of rules, is hard, is scary, is confusing, and then you're kind of left in this place of, yeah, I've been trusting everybody else and all this external information for so long that, holy shit, I have no idea what I want to eat now.

And so there's a lot of things I see with this. Like I think there's. I think a really sad part of this is that a lot of us lose touch with our true preferences, like what we actually enjoy I know that was really big part of my recovery is like what the heck do I like to eat? Like you know what I mean, because I think our judgment of what we like and don't like is so clouded by the morality that is assigned to foods, with diets and disordered eating.

Like you know, let's say, you think you, like you swear that that chickpea cookie dough tastes like tastes just as good as cookie dough. Right, you can convince yourself of these things and diet culture can convince you of these things to the point where, like you no longer recognize from an inner wisdom place what you, what you truly enjoy, and that kind of just sets us up for dysregulation with food. Anyways, like we could go on a whole tangent on, like how that is linked to, like binge eating episodes and then the restrict binge cycle that incurs from that right.

Abbie Attwood: 20:29

Like all these rules just kind of they don't help us. We think they help us, but like what they do is they keep us in that fear-based place that we were just talking about, like either following the rule or rebelling against the rule, and neither one of those is about our instincts, our desires, our wants, our needs, our pleasure, all of these things that are so demonized in our culture, like pleasure is so demonized in every way, including with food. So I think preferences are a big issue.

You have to acknowledge that this is a process of rediscovering what you like and acknowledging that that's going to be an experiment. Nobody's going to be able to hand you the rules for that Nobody's going to be able to tell you what you're going to like or not like, and so really holding that truth of like this is going to be an experiment.

Abbie Attwood: 21:21

I'm going to have to, like go to the grocery store, pick out a bunch of stuff that I haven't had in years, tap back into some nostalgic food, test some things out again, like maybe I won't, Maybe I realize I don't like this thing, maybe I realize I like this thing. I never thought I would like it's and it's experimental. And again, that's scary because that's a level of uncertainty comes with that, but at the same time it's fun. Like freedom. It's so ironic I don't know if you feel like this, jen. It's so ironic how, how like scary freedom is. Like we all want freedom and we all want the peace that comes with it and yet when we have it we're kind of like frozen. Like what do with this? Like all of this space, you know?

Jenn Salib Huber: 22:06

and the decision fatigue at any age I think is really real. And when we layer in midlife brain fog, you know, not sleeping well, all of the symptoms that can come with perimenopause and menopause it can feel overwhelming to think I don't know what I like and I don't know that I have the capacity to even think about that, and you know. So this lack of structure and rules is understandable, that we want, we think we want someone to tell us what to have. Every dietitian that I've ever met does not like to do or even entertain the idea of giving someone a meal plan, and everyone thinks they want a meal plan but they don't. Because we don't actually like to be told what to do, we also rebel against that right.

Jenn Salib Huber: 23:01

Yes, so being able to have this permission to be curious, and just what do I like? How can I make this fun? How can I make this playful? How can I make this a low stress investment in figuring out what do I find filling and satisfying? You know, I think that we really need to welcome play and pleasure back into our relationship with food, instead of always looking for best, better platinum, you know what are you know, because we have this idea that there is a best way to eat when really there isn't. There isn't one way to eat. There's 8 million different permutations of what can be health promoting for you and it doesn't have to be based on it shouldn't be based on what someone else is eating, at least.

Abbie Attwood: 23:54

I think I couldn't. Yeah, just clapping, clapping right now. For all that, I think you know. What's interesting about this is if you know to be honest, I think, when, if we're in a place in this process, journey whatever we're calling it right when we do, where we do find ourselves in that place of like I don't know what to eat, Like I'm overwhelmed. This is hard without rules. I'm just kind of lost.

Abbie Attwood: 24:19

I think what that signals to me usually is the rules are still there, Like, and that's what's making it hard. You're trying not to follow them, but you still have all of this mental chatter in your head about what you should or shouldn't be eating, and that's what actually is making the decision making hard that you were going to eat. You just choose some food and move on with your day, which is like really ideally, what I want us all to be able to do. Like food doesn't have to be complicated, right, it doesn't have to take long to prepare it. We're going to eat again multiple times a day for the rest of our lives, Like it's really okay to just eat and move on. So if you do feel like you're in this space where you're like I don't know what to eat.

Abbie Attwood: 25:02

My gentle suggestion is like, you probably just still have a lot of noise that you need to work through and that's okay and be gentle with yourself through that but, like, maybe come up with a list of things that are just really simple and easy. You know, like, are you resisting the idea of a bowl of cereal? Are you resisting the idea of a grilled cheese? Are you, you know, resisting the idea of getting takeout when you don't feel like cooking because you think cooking is the quote unquote healthy thing to do? Like, are you afraid to like buy packaged foods or prepared foods? Like, where are these kind of convenient items that would make this so much easier on you and are absolutely lovely choices?

How are? How is the fear mongering we were talking about before, to kind of connect back to point number one that you made, how is that coming into play and making this decision fatigue happen? Are you truly free or are you just still operating from this place of fear and that's why you don't know what you want to do? You know.

Jenn Salib Huber: 26:07

Great question. One of the things we say in the Midlife Feast community is lower the bar. It's one of our mantras.

Abbie Attwood: 26:15

Yeah, I love that.

Jenn Salib Huber: 26:15

Lowering the bar with your expectations of what a meal food needs to be is one of the best gifts that you you can give yourself. By the pre-cut veggie tray, by the bagged salad, by the rotisserie chicken, by, by the things that make it easier to feed yourself in ways that are filling and satisfying and leave the morality and the shame and the guilt out of it totally buy the pop tarts by the frozen pizza.

Abbie Attwood: 26:44

like I'm a big bag salad mix man, but like also all the other things right, Like, oh, one of my favorite things is like microwavable rice, like white rice that you can just like, oh my god, and it's ready in 60 seconds. It's like done by the bread, right, Bread is such an easy thing to just add to a meat, like if you have the rotisserie chicken in the bag salad and then you just like have a delicious loaf of bread like done right, like it doesn't have to be hard, but let me tell you there is.

Jenn Salib Huber: 27:14

There is not a european country that does not have bread as a staple at every meal. We I was in France with a group of friends last month and we were at this cute little garden restaurant and we didn't see bread on the menu. And so one of my, one of the people who's with me, who's from the States and I'm Canadian we were all North American asked you know, the the server, is there bread with the meal? And she said ben oui, you are in France, we always have bread. You know, it was kind of like she'd asked this crazy question Like what do you mean? Bread? Of course there's bread. So, yeah, bread. Another great, great reminder just to. I mean, how easy is it to add bread for your carb, right?

Abbie Attwood: 27:57

I mean, it's exactly exactly, or chips too, you know, just like, think, like keeping it so easy, you know. But yeah, the like microwave rice, bread, chips, tortillas, like pasta is easy, box mac and cheese is easy, like all these things, I think it's reclaiming, like you don't have to grate your own cheese.

Abbie Attwood: 28:25

yeah, it actually doesn't like reclaim convenience for yourself, because this is just. I mean, I won't go on my whole, I won't get up on my whole soapbox about how, like, how much like marginalization and oppression is inherent in diet culture, but really remember that like these systems exist to like rob you of a lot of your time and energy and money and your life and your joy and so like. Remember that food is a part of your life that's supposed to like fuel your life. It's not supposed to be your life right, like it's not. It's it's okay if food is just kind of whatever and for most meals food is just going to be whatever.

Reclaiming Joy, Convenience, and Simplicity in Midlife Eating

Abbie Attwood: 29:14

And diet culture when we're living in a state of deprivation and restriction every time we eat is like an orgasm because it's like because you're restricting, so of course it feels really good to eat, and then when you stop restricting so much, there's less excitement. And I think that's another thing that comes into play here. When folks are feeling indecisive, that like it's less exciting and there's some grief around that to be you know. So also just understanding that that it's okay for food to just be food, and sometimes we have seasons of life where it's really kind of boring and that's okay, you know that's fine.

Jenn Salib Huber: 29:54

It serves a purpose, just to keep that's right and that's okay.

Jenn Salib Huber: 29:57

That's right. Yeah, I like thank you for bringing up the point about how it doesn't, how it loses some of its excitement, because that is absolutely something that I've seen too that people will describe this apathy around food and they're worried about it. Yes, they'll say, oh my gosh, I used to care so much and I don't care at all. Am I doing it wrong? And I always tell them no, it is part of the journey.

It is part of the journey. You will one day wake up and be like I want to cook something and you're going to be excited about it and that's going to be great. But there's no timeline for that to happen and it's going to look very different than it did when you were in your dieting and your restricting days. But the food apathy is absolutely a stepping stone on the journey and so a totally normal thing. So thanks for bringing that up.

Abbie Attwood: 30:44

Can I give a quick like analogy that helps people understand that? Okay, just really quick. Um, I think, like on another way to to like understand why this happens is like, if you think about if you've ever been in a relationship that was really volatile, like like one of those kind of just emotionally volatile relationships where, like there's kind of this constant push pull do

Do they love me as much as I love them? Do they write like this? It's like just not a sure thing, and I've definitely been in one of those relationships in my past and that makes that that like gives you this false sense of chemistry. Do you know what I'm saying? Like as if, like you guys have this fire because every time you fight, you break up, you come back together, whatever. It's like exciting and you think, oh my God, it's our connection, it's our you know chemistry. It's like this is so intoxicating.

Abbie Attwood: 31:32

I remember when I met my husband, like it was so like even keel all the time, like it was, like easy it was. You know there wasn't those ups and downs and like I mean we joke about this. I had a moment where I was like well, is this boring or is this like? And I realized no, this is love, this is secure attachment. Abby Like this is.

Abbie Attwood: 31:56

This is being able to trust somebody like right, because we've lived in a place for so long where we don't fucking trust our body because diet culture has taught us we can't. So we live in this toxic relationship with food and our body. And food is exciting and meals are exciting because it's like when are we going to eat next? We don't know. Are we going to starve ourselves tomorrow?

We don't know like. But when it's just available and it's secure and it's and we have abundance and we don't have that scarcity mindset and we're not scared anymore, it's like we're like out expecting the waters to be rough in our sailboat and it's just like smooth sailing and we're like what's happening? Is this wrong? Am I doing something wrong? What's going on, right?

Jenn Salib Huber: 32:39

So true, so so true. Yeah, it's okay for it to be boring, because we have to make about it every day, does not? Have to be like fireworks. That's awesome. Yeah, okay, I want to make sure that we have enough time to cover the third.

Abbie Attwood: 32:51

Okay, okay we're gonna give a shout. I'm set to chatter I am too trust me. That's why we have podcasts.

Jenn Salib Huber: 32:57

That's why we have podcasts so I'm gonna give a shout out to lar, to Laura, who follows both of our podcasts. I, laura's from Nova Scotia, or lived in Nova Scotia for a while, I think she's a West coaster now, but she was the one that sent us both a message and said I want both of you on a podcast, and so when I reached out, I was very happy that you agreed.

Abbie Attwood: 33:20

So I did Good job. We, we, actually we do get along just so you know, Laura, you were right.

Jenn Salib Huber: 33:28

We would definitely be friends in real life.

Jenn Salib Huber: 33:30

Yeah, we will be.

Jenn Salib Huber: 33:31

Yes, but the question was a great one, and that is how do you set boundaries, how do you explain to the people in your life that intuitive eating is your path forward and that nothing is going to convince you to go back to dieting? Because there was a really great point brought up in the message from Laura that you know, once you see diet culture, you can't unsee it. And that is, I think, a really great moment in any intuitive eater's journey is kind of seeing that you know the wool has been lifted, the veil has been lifted, the shine has been taken off of dieting.

You know that you're never going back to dieting, but all the people around you are still trying to convince you that there's a great diet out there, that intuitive eating isn't going to work. And sometimes those people are, you know, close to you, sometimes they can be immediate family, sometimes in your household. How do we set boundaries when those people are cramping our style without you know telling them to piss off? Or maybe we just need to tell them to piss off?

Setting Boundaries with Loved Ones Around Diet Culture

Abbie Attwood: 34:36

Maybe you do. Yeah, I think you know. I think that when I hear this question from and it's still coming from a place of like, how do I convince them that this is my path? And I just want to say like I think that's our problem right there. We don't have to convince anybody of anything.

Abbie Attwood: 34:58

And I do think that if you've done a lot of diets in the past or you followed a lot of food rules in the past, you're probably used to kind of like telling people about your new thing, right Like, well, now I'm doing this because I don't want to get this and this and whatever, and I think it's remembering like you don't have to explain your choices, so when we're, you don't have to explain why. You're just eating food and calling it eating like, and you're not following somebody else's rules.

You know like, I think I think like I'm not actually even someone who subscribes to the specific steps of whatever it is, of intuitive eating. I just kind of call it eating. I'm like we're eating, that's it. We're not following a plan. I kind of think of it as we're unbecoming all of the things that the culture has always told us that we need to be or should be in order to be valuable and worthy in this world, and you don't owe an explanation to anybody about why you're just eating. And so I think this comes down to like kind of unearthing. What might be underneath, like the tendency to people please and not want to like ruffle feathers by just saying, hey, can we not talk about diets? I know I used to talk about them, but it's not something I'm comfortable talking about anymore.

Abbie Attwood: 36:13

You know, being assertive in your communication with people without over explaining yourself. You know, really this is like this is so much bigger than food. It's really about respecting your own needs and learning what you need in relationship with other people. And again, kind of like we were talking about earlier, it's a practice, like it's an experiment. You're not going to get it perfect ever.

Abbie Attwood: 36:37

Communicating this stuff to folks it's hard, it's really hard to talk about, goes really deep, and people will get defensive about their choices with food too. So just holding that and remembering like you don't have to explain yourself. Just tell them like you're no longer dieting, you have no desire to go back to it. You fully respect whatever choices they're making with food, but you would really value that in your relationship with them that the two of you no longer talk about food and diets and bodies and weight, because, a there's so many other better things to talk about with our people that we love and B you can just simply explain like look, I've been through a lot with this. It's been pretty like emotionally tumultuous for me.

Abbie Attwood: 37:30

This it's been pretty like emotionally tumultuous for me and I just would love to just for us to keep that off the table of topics, you know, and also offer up like if you ever want to learn more about why I made this decision, I am totally here for you and I would love to talk to you about it. But and you know, don't assume anyone's ready for that Like we've all been there and we all know, like we weren't ready to see it until we were ready to see it.

So just, I think the number one thing I would advise folks is be really clear about the fact that you don't have to explain yourself to them. You can just state it really clearly and that's it's not mean, it's not harsh, it's kind right, it's kind to enter into relationship with people authentically and to express like what you need and to know like a strong relationship can withstand that and a person who loves you is going to want to respect your needs and your mental health. What do you think.

Jenn Salib Huber: 38:34

I think that's the perfect advice. I think that's perfect. I I say something very similar. It's you don't. It's not your job to fix people. And if somebody wants to drone on about their diet and you have a right to set a boundary, you have a right to remove yourself from the situation you can just say I'm going to go talk to someone else. I see you're having a conversation about this. I don't talk about this anymore, so I'm just going to go over here and we can talk later.

Jenn Salib Huber: 39:06

But the last thing that I would add to this is that I sometimes, if this is somebody who's in your life that you see a lot that you can't and don't want to cut out of your life, I suggest writing them a letter and maybe before. I often get people to do this with mothers this comes up a lot that, oh my gosh, I'm going to visit my mom, I haven't seen her in a long time. She's going to tell me about this great new diet that she's on and I'll say write her a letter so that it's not an emotionally charged interaction. You're getting it off your chest before you see them and you can even tell them in the letter. You don't need to respond.

Jenn Salib Huber: 39:42

I'm not awaiting a response because this isn't up for discussion. I am simply stating my boundary, that I am not willing to discuss my weight, my food, my diet with you anymore. I love you and I want to spend time with you, but I don't want to talk about that, and so that's just kind of another way I think, that people can approach it, especially if it's, if it's a casual person that you see, like I don't know, every Canada day, or you know 4th of July or something, maybe you can, you know, just do your thing that once a year. But if it is someone that you see all the time, maybe there's another way to approach it too.

Abbie Attwood: 40:14

Like, letters are powerful and they give us space. They just give us space to think and be clear, so I just wanted to say yay to that.

Jenn Salib Huber: 40:22

I just want to thank you so much. This has been amazing. I would love to have another part two, especially talking about you know the marginalization that happens and how you know diet culture has really just been so pervasive in trying to marginalize certain groups of people. So I would love to have another conversation about that, if you're up for it, but to wrap this one up, would love to have another conversation about that, if you're up for it, but to wrap this one up, what do you think is the missing ingredient in midlife?

Self-Compassion: The Missing Ingredient for Midlife Women

Abbie Attwood: 41:01

Well, first of all, yes to part two. Secondly, oh my God, what a great question, jen. I mean. So many things come to mind, but I think what I'll go with is self-compassion. I think I don't.

Abbie Attwood: 41:08

I don't believe that there's anything we go through that can't be made just a bit easier by being kinder and more understanding to ourselves, right?

Abbie Attwood: 41:16

I think often we suffer so much more and endure so much more pain than we need to, because, on top of whatever is hard in our life because life is hard, having a body is hard, dealing with all these cultural messages is hard but on top of that we're hard on ourselves and we're often not that nice to ourselves.

Abbie Attwood: 41:41

There's a reason you don't treat other people the way you treat yourself, and it's because you know that it would hurt them and those relationships would probably disintegrate and we can't expect something different in the relationship we have with ourselves. We have to remember that kindness is healing and even when we mess up, even when we fuck up, we, we will, because we're imperfect.

That's what it is to be human still. Even then, being kind to yourself through that experience is a better option always than shame always. And so I think self-compassion, I don't think we can get enough of it and I think that our midlife is where we lack it the most, because it's when society has its claws in us the most right, like when we're little. When we're little kids we're kind of free from it, and then, in much older age I've observed from people in my life we free ourselves and liberate ourselves more because we're finally like fuck this. But midlife is hard, so self-compassion.

Jenn Salib Huber: 42:55

Thank you so much, abby. We will have all of your links and where people can find you and listen to your podcast in the show notes. And stay tuned for part two because there will definitely be a part two. Thank you so much. Thank you, it was so nice, jen. Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of the Midlife Feast For more non-diet, health, hormone and general midlife support. Click the link in the show notes to learn how you can work and learn from me, and if you enjoyed this episode and found it helpful, please consider leaving a review or subscribing, because it helps other women just like you find us and feel supported in midlife.