Struggling with binge eating and the endless restrict-crave cycle? You’re not alone. In this episode, dietitian Toni Rudd unpacks the emotional triggers behind binge eating, the impact of dieting, and why willpower isn’t the problem.

We also explore how ADHD can influence eating behaviors and share practical tools like mindful eating and food abundance to help you build self-trust and a healthier relationship with food.

Join us for an eye-opening, compassionate conversation that offers hope and real strategies for breaking free from binge eating.

Connect with Toni 
The Website: https://www.thebingedietitian.com/
Instagram: @the.binge.dietitian 

TRANSCRIPT

Jenn Salib Huber: 0:00

Hi and welcome to the Midlife Feast, the podcast for women who are hungry for more in this season of life. I'm your host, Dr. Jenn Salib-Huber. I'm an intuitive eating dietitian and naturopathic doctor and I help women manage menopause without dieting and food rules. Come to my table, listen and learn from me trusted guest experts in women's health and interviews with women just like you. Each episode brings to the table juicy conversations designed to help you feast on midlife. And if you're looking for more information about menopause, nutrition and intuitive eating, check ou

t the midlife feast community, my monthly membership that combines my no nonsense approach that you all love to nutrition with community, so that you can learn from me and others who can relate to the cheers and challenges of midlife. Hands up.

Jenn Salib Huber: 0:53

If you've ever started a Monday or a Tuesday or a Wednesday or a Thursday or any day of the week, saying to yourself today is going to be different. Today I'm going to be good. I am not going to do this, I'm only going to eat this. And then come three o'clock, or maybe eight o'clock or maybe midnight, you find yourself elbow deep in a bag of something and think to yourself what am I doing wrong?

Jenn Salib Huber: 1:22

My guest today is Tony Rudd, who's a dietitian from the UK but living in Peru, which is a fun conversation to have, and we talk specifically about the restrict binge cycle and so, as a binge dietitian, which she specializes in, she really helps people to understand the connections between their behaviors and their thoughts and how those behaviors of restriction lead to the cravings that can sometimes lead to binge eating behaviors.

So we have a really great conversation about some of the myths, misconceptions and also some of the strategies that she teaches people who are looking to have a more peaceful relationship with food, and there's a really interesting tidbit of info at the end about ADHD and the connection to binge eating and binge eating disorders. So make sure you listen for that if that's of interest to you. Hi Toni, welcome to the Midlife Feast.

Toni Rudd: 2:20

Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to chat with you today.

Jenn Salib Huber: 2:25

And it's kind of fun because I'm in the Netherlands and you're in Peru.

Toni Rudd: 2:31

Yeah, it's a bit different, isn't it?

Jenn Salib Huber: 2:35

Yeah, and I'm always amazed and maybe this is like a function of age, but I'm just amazed that technology exists, that we can have this conversation on the other side of the world from each other, so it's pretty fun yeah, I love connecting with all the dietitians across the world that I have um.

Toni Rudd: 2:51

Yeah, being in the Peru, I've connected with a lot of um US and Canadian people which I probably might not have if I lived in the UK.

Jenn Salib Huber: 2:59

So I yeah, I love that and it's funny because I'm Canadian but since living in the Netherlands, I've connected with a lot of people in the UK that I don't think I would have otherwise. Yeah, so we're talking about a topic that I know lots of listeners will be eager to talk about. We've talked about it before, um, but we're talking about binge eating today, and so I think when people hear binge eating or when they use that word, it doesn't always mean the same thing to everyone. So can you maybe just kind of orient us, like, what do we mean when we say binge eating? What does it? What does that mean?

What Is Binge Eating? Breaking Down the Myths

Toni Rudd: 3:41

I agree, I think binge eating is more of like an umbrella term where there's different types of binge eating behaviors that kind of come under that and it's it's a spectrum.

Toni Rudd: 3:52

I would explain it as is that there's like kind of one side where you've got your diagnosed eating disorder of binge eating disorder, but then on the other end we're probably towards um more like disordered eating behaviors where restriction and dieting has led people to binge eating more likely, um, but the binge eating disorder we only know kind of what that is diagnosed as.

So there's kind of guidance around that, where you're eating until you're really uncomfortably full, you're eating very fast in a short amount of time and the amount of food that you're eating is a large quantity, and that has to happen regularly for around like three to six months to get the diagnosis of the binge eating disorder. But I also I see a lot of people that don't fall into that category but then do binge eat regularly, which is probably more your disordered eating behavior, um, and I think I think both are equally as what's the word distressing?

The Role of Shame and Guilt in Binge Eating 

Jenn Salib Huber: 5:02

um, because I think alongside the disordered eating and the binge eating there is a lot of guilt and shame, um, and like disgust is a word that I hear a lot with around that habit and I just know there's so much shame around binge eating across the whole spectrum yeah, and and I really appreciate you kind of breaking down the difference between binge eating disorder and binge eating behaviors, because very much you know, like many other conditions that might have a diagnostic criteria, there are going to be people who have some but not all, and but that doesn't mean that they're less valid or less impactful to your experience.

And for anybody who has a disordered relationship with food, especially people who are in that binge restrict cycle which we'll talk about in a second, what we call it doesn't matter, right, it's their experience of how they feel in those moments that we really want to kind of validate.

Toni Rudd: 6:08

Yeah, and due to a lot of problematic issues in healthcare, a lot of people don't get the kind, might not get the diagnosis that they need. And then when I talk about problems in healthcare, I am thinking of like weight stigma, where maybe people aren't being like taken seriously because they may be living a larger body and they'll just go. They'll tell the doctor or a healthcare professional that they're experiencing these binge eating regularly and it's causing them a lot of distress and a lot of the time. In my experience and what I've heard from people that I work with, is that they aren't, they're not getting the support that they need right away and it can take a little bit of time, which can be so hard. If you're reaching out for support and you're not getting it and and then the kind of distress that comes with it, it's really horrible. It's not a nice place to be.

Jenn Salib Huber: 7:13

Yeah, absolutely, and thank you for kind of touching on some of those challenges, because they are very real challenges, regardless of where you live in the world. If you're trying to access, care for that. But I'd love to circle around to talking about binge eating behaviors and kind of what I alluded to earlier, that binge restrict cycle, which far more people will be familiar with. Can you walk us through what that is?

The Binge-Restrict Cycle: Why Dieting Fuels Overeating 

Toni Rudd: 7:39

Yeah. So the restrict binge cycle it can be named different things, I think different people call it different things, but it's essentially a binge eating cycle. Where, um it's, it's a never-ending cycle that kind of just goes round and around. There's no kind of enter point or exit point, um, and where you start on the cycle can be many different reasons why. So I always like to start at restrict, because I do think that makes sense to explain it.

So when we restrict food so whether that is physically restricting food because you're going on a new diet, or you might be restricting certain food groups, or maybe you're not physically restricting, but there's a lot of mental restriction around foods, like you might be eating food, but then there's a lot of like I shouldn't be eating this, this is bad, I should be doing better there's that kind of mentality. When you're eating, I would say that's a form of restriction as well. When you're eating, I would say that's a form of restriction as well.

Toni Rudd: 8:49

But when you've got those behaviors, what happens is you essentially then don't eat enough for what your body needs to do, what it needs for everyday life, alongside going to work, being a parent and doing your movement, whatever it is that you do. Eventually what happens is that we find like an increase in hunger hormone.

So if you don't eat enough food for what your body needs, the body will adapt and you have an increase in hunger and your satiety becomes more driven towards like high energy food. So you get more cravings for high energy food. And if you think about it, it makes sense because if you're not eating enough food, your body's adapting by telling you it needs quick energy and a lot of the time the quick energy is like the sugary foods or carbohydrates, because, remember, carbs give us energy, um. So then you find that you're feeling really deprived, you're low in energy, you're thinking about food, um, and then that is kind of a a stepping stone point towards a binge.

Toni Rudd: 10:06

And generally a binge does come, whether it's the same day so I see a lot of people restrict a lot in the day and then the evening is there's a lot of food eaten within a short period of time on the evening, um, but also I think it can show up on a weekly basis, so you could restrict weekly.

Toni Rudd: 10:26

And then the weekends are kind of like a binge weekend, um, and then it can show up with like holidays if you're restricting for a few months, before a vacation or a holiday, um, and then the holidays are one, two week binge, so it can show up in different formats, but I think the premise is all the same. And then, like we've said, after the binge or after the weekend, it's always start again on Monday, after the vacation or holiday. It's it's the guilt and shame about how much you've eaten and that you need to kind of make up for it after it, and so a lot of the time, the guilt and shame then drives you to kind of restrict again. And that's when, like the never ending cycle kind of continues, whether that's, like I said, a daily, a weekly or monthly kind of basis, and it's where I find people blame themselves right.

Jenn Salib Huber: 11:26

And so we're, you know, kind of we believe that there's something wrong with us, that we lack the willpower, that we lack motivation, knowledge, skills, that there's something broken about us that other people, you know, don't have. And I think it's so important to label this cycle and to name it so that we can destigmatize it that the behavior of restriction is something that we are biologically programmed to fight against. Our brain doesn't like it, our body doesn't like it and our body just wants to keep us safe, and part of that safety is being fed.

So I mean, I see this show up so much. I'm sure you see it as well, but kind of, given that I tend to work with people primarily in midlife, you know, sometimes people have never dieted, have never restricted, and then midlife happens and their body is changing and they feel completely out of control and so they start dieting for the first time.

Why Many Midlife Women Struggle with Dieting for the First Time 

Jenn Salib Huber: 12:25

Maybe they're following, like, the trends and the fads of, like, intermittent fasting, and they feel like there's something wrong with them because they can't stick with it and I'm using your quotes for anyone who's listening, you know or they can only stick with it for a few days, or like, and again it's this programming of like what's wrong with me, why can't I do this? There's nothing wrong with you. Your body is just doing what it needs to keep you fed and safe. So I think it's so important that we just label this cycle as a well-known thing that this happens to pretty much anybody who restricts.

Toni Rudd: 13:00

Yeah, and you mentioned like willpower and control, like we've been kind of conditioned through diet culture. So people that have chronic dieted or yo-yo dieted, where you kind of go on enough diets throughout their life, you're kind of you have the message sent to you that you should be able to control your weight and your diet and if you don't, then you just need to try harder or have more control. And I think that is a huge myth. Like you said, it's just not the right advice.

Why Willpower Won’t Stop Binge Eating

Jenn Salib Huber: 13:40

Yeah, and so one of the other things that I would like to kind of talk about and to get your perspective on is we've touched on some of these. But, like, what are some of the myths about binge eating? You know, because I feel like there's I almost feel like we use that term, like we do sometimes like OCD, and I have family members with, you know, clinically diagnosed OCD, so I don't tend to use it as like a light term, but I feel like there's just a lot of misinformation about it. So what are some of the myths about binge eating?

Toni Rudd: 14:13

Yeah, I think the willpower and control is one for sure. That's a huge myth, I see, and I think that's massively fueled by diet culture. And I think that's massively fueled by diet culture. I would say. Another myth is that it happens to mainly people in larger bodies. I think I see all types of bodies with binge eating, disordered eating and binge eating disorder. I don't think any eating disorder doesn't have a look and again, um, we are kind of fed that certain eating disorders look a certain way and I think that is completely wrong. Um, so I think that is a huge myth. Yeah, absolutely I agree.

Toni Rudd: 15:12

And what about the myths around like foods causing the binge or foods creating the craving?

Toni Rudd: 15:19

I think it's a topic that I don't talk much about on social because I think it's a very personal experience. I don't think we can call kind of food like addiction, the same level as drug and alcohol, because I think obviously the drug and alcohols are toxins to the body and I think the word food addiction does make it sound that food is the toxic and that it's your fault. Um, there are obviously things we're learning more about processed food in these days and it's a big topic about, and there is a lot of evidence around how um processed foods do contain. There are more like desirable. We're pulled towards them because they're easy, they taste nice, they have salt in them, they've got all these additives in that make us want more of it. Um, but also, if you feel like you're addicted to food, I never kind of um like put that down if that makes sense. I never ignore that because I think if you feel like it, I think that's very unique to that person. Um, and and maybe a little bit of exploring around, that is really helpful.

Can Food Really Be Addictive? The Science Behind Cravings

Toni Rudd: 16:35

Um I think as well. I think carbs have a really bad rep and I find a lot of people skip carbohydrates across the day and then they're. They are binging on carbohydrates and I think that is a? Yeah, I think that is a sign of this binge recycle that if you restrict carbohydrates, you're more likely going to binge on them later on. So yeah they're number two things.

Jenn Salib Huber: 17:03

When you cut something out that your brain especially needs. You know our brain isn't fueled by kale, it's fueled by carbs, and so it doesn't matter how many salads or, you know, steaks or whatever you eat, at the end of the day your brain is still going to say where are my carbs Right In order to feel your best, like people often when I'm working with women who are in especially perimenopause and they're experiencing a lot of mood changes and a lot of sleep changes. So if anybody listening is having a hard time falling asleep, staying asleep and as irritable as all get out and you're trying to cut out carbs, please go have a piece of bread. Like it can like change your life honestly.

Toni Rudd: 17:57

When I was in my 20s, I did a lot of dieting and I cut out carbs. That was my diet, like low carb, I think, the more recent years. Carbs are the enemy and we're told that we should avoid it or monitor it or restrict it. And actually I mean I think that's when I learned the true definition of hungry like it's not a good place to be and to be so hungry that you're so moody and like irritated by a little thing. Um, and also I found that I didn't sleep well, like it affected my sleep and I think when you have carbs for your evening meal, you do sleep better. So, yeah, I think that's a great tip.

Jenn Salib Huber: 18:48

And there's science to that right. I mean, there's actual research that shows that carbohydrates eaten within four hours I think it is of going to bed make it easier to fall asleep, and we know that carbohydrates are an integral part of getting some of the amino acids that we need to make serotonin and melatonin into our brain. So they're there for a reason, they serve a purpose. But I also wanted to say thank you for bringing up the conversation about food addiction, because it is very. I never want to invalidate someone's experience and the intensity of the cravings can absolutely feel like it is something that is happening to you that you have no control over. But there is a lot of nuance to it, because what we know now, the current state of the science in 2025, is that food addiction does not meet the criteria of a substance use disorder. There are some kind of key parts that are missing to it, specifically the lack of withdrawal symptoms when people stop eating the food. But again, that doesn't mean that the experience of how it feels is invalid and I think, or at least I hope, that sometimes, by providing people with the information about that, you know it isn't something that is out of their control, as it were, like they're not being driven by a substance like a drug or a toxin. I hope that they can maybe find a bit of empowerment in that you know that, by changing the story, their story about, like, what's happening, that they might actually be able to find a safe place to kind of explore, well, what else might be contributing to this craving, what else might make it feel like the craving is so strong? Yeah, but yeah, but thanks for bringing that up.

Jenn Salib Huber: 20:30

So, on that kind of same vein, what are some of the things that create that craving? You know we've talked about we need to eat. We need to eat regularly. We need to eat carbs. We need to have, like that you know we've talked about. We need to eat. We need to eat regularly. We need to eat carbs. We need to have, like that you know, regular patterns of eating. But what are some of the other things that might create circumstances or thoughts or feelings that might lead to either restriction or binging?

Toni Rudd: 20:57

I think something I mentioned earlier around like the mental restriction, like if you've got and and your language around food, I would say um on top of that. So if you're mentally restricting in a way that you're saying these things to yourself, where it's like I shouldn't be eating this, this isn't the best, this isn't good for my health, um, this is going to make me gain weight. All those sorts of health, um, this is going to make me gain weight. All those sorts of words, the shoulds, the shouldn'ts, um, or I'm bad, I'm good, I think, um, I think that can drive your cravings.

Toni Rudd: 21:34

I think the brain's very clever in thinking hang on, I know that you're going to restrict these foods soon, so actually I'm gonna want, I want to eat it all now and then you can restrict until I want it again, kind of thinking. And I think that's known as the scarcity mindset, isn't it when, when we put things off limits, the brain does this thing where we want it more. And people always explain to me that like they can hear their food, they can't keep food in the, in the cupboards, or in the fruit, that ice cream in the freezer, because it they can literally just hear it shout in their name and I think that's so real and a real life example of um the scarcity mindset is that you've got it there, so your brain's thinking I need to eat it all now, before it's gone again.

How to Break Free from the Scarcity Mindset Around Food

Jenn Salib Huber: 22:29

And I, anybody who listens to this or anybody who works with me will know that I say exactly what you say and I've said it many times over. But it's hard to convince people. It's not hard to convince them of the truth of it once they've done it, because actually I don't know about you, but it's kind of amazing to see how quickly the scarcity mindset evaporates in the presence of food abundance, essentially. But it's really hard to convince people that this is real, that by having more access to it, by practicing this unconditional permission to eat, by creating space and safety around these foods which have felt so dangerous that their cravings for them will reduce. I'd love to hear, like, how do you communicate that in a way that people actually believe you?

Toni Rudd: 23:26

It's a good question because, I agree, I think it is a really difficult area to explore with people. I think I always treat things like a science experiment. I always that's the kind of language I use with people like really be curious rather than judgmental. Like be curious about what comes up.

Toni Rudd: 23:47

So if you buy something that you, um, previously have a little bit of fear around or like you associate with, been like binging on them and things like cookies or ice creams are normally quite common ones, I think try and have them in the house and for a short period, so it feels comfortable and it's not a forever thing, and treat it like an experiment where you're being curious to know what feelings come up. Yeah, I like the experiment and experimenting way and I think that gets people thinking okay, it's, she's not gonna get me to do it forever, in fact, I'm just gonna try it and I think that is a really like nice lean into exploring, being curious, having some compassion and understanding of what's going on for you rather than it being all judgment and like putting yourself down around it. I hope that makes sense.

Jenn Salib Huber: 24:50

Yeah, and I use the same language. I say we're going to try it on so you don't have to wear it forever, but we're just going to try it on and see what happens. But I think what I love seeing in people, and what I hope people enjoy experiencing, is that it's really an experiment in trust. So for so long you have not trusted your body, for so long you have felt like you're at war with it, that you're trying to control your mind, control your body, and this is like an experiment in playing on the same team, right and like how can you work together instead of against your body?

And even just that language of like actually you're on the same team, so how can you like work together, I think can invite some curiosity, because so much of the conversations around food and our bodies have been about control how can I fix, how can I control, how can I change, instead of like being curious and like what do I want? What do I like? What feels good?

Toni Rudd: 25:54

Yeah, I think the body trust is a huge. It's a huge goal, isn't it? I would say that's like a long-term goal with the, the work that we do, but I think, when, when I say that to people initially, I think that can bring up a lot of anxiety, like you said we're so conditioned to control and um be against our bodies and always put it down rather than make it feel like a home, um, but yeah, I think it can bring up a lot of like.

Toni Rudd: 26:26

I don't know if this, if I can do that, if I could ever achieve that, is it. Is that a magical kind of power.

Jenn Salib Huber: 26:38

So the other kind of last thing that I wanted to touch on, because this, I feel like, is a is an evolving area and and I know that you have some, some experience and thoughts on this but sometimes we think see things like other conditions, like ADHD is what I'm thinking of that add another layer to the behaviors around binging and restricting.

How ADHD and Binge Eating Are Connected

Toni Rudd: 27:03

So, um, yeah, I'd love to hear more about that yeah, I mean, I'm really interested in this area, particularly with adhd and binge eating. There is a lot of research that they're massively linked and there's a lot of behaviors in both of them that kind of interlink and can drive the risk of if you've got ADHD, you're more at risk of developing binge eating behaviors or the eating disorder. Yeah, and there's many behaviors that interlink. So there's the impulsivity, that kind of impulse to grab whatever they can in that moment and, um, the impact it has on, like, the executive function in the brain. So people with adhd struggle with planning meals and meal prep. They can also go long periods without eating and that might not be uh, that is physical restriction, but it's not in a diety way, if that makes sense.

Toni Rudd: 28:12

So, and one of the reasons is the medication that people with adhd can be on, it can really impact their ability to hear their hunger signs and their internal cues. So, with the hyper focus and the um that comes with adhd, imagine someone going to work. They've had their medication and they just get so tunnel vision in in their work that they can go all day until without eating and then, once the medication wears off, they can find that they're absolutely ravenous and it kind of creates this binge. So that in itself is an example of kind of that restrict binge cycle, but in a different ADHD kind of way I think. I think as well, in ADHD food can be a dopamine hit and so absolutely people with ADHD have like lower levels of dopamine and food can be that kind of quick dopamine hit that gets them excited and full of energy. And if food is your kind, if it is your only source of dopamine hit, then that's when it can be a bit of a struggle that you're always turning to food for that.

Jenn Salib Huber: 29:37

Yeah, yeah, and especially with what you mentioned about, like the executive functioning and meal planning, you know those kinds of things. I mean, we talk about practical eating and we talk about, like, the importance of having regular opportunities to eat, and those are challenges when you have ADHD, right? So the things that can prevent the cravings and the binging require an extra level of planning, so that can be a challenge for sure.

Toni Rudd: 30:02

And I love that, because we have to be a bit more creative in how we support these people and the traditional kind of meal planning, meal prepping approaches maybe won't be as effective, and I've had some good? Um. I've seen enough people with ADHD and binge eating that. There's some good? Um examples on how to mix it up and make it make it them, and I think that's the most important thing. There's no kind of one way to do things. It's finding a way for you to do it.

Practical Tips to Make Meal Planning Easier for ADHD Brains

Toni Rudd: 30:32

So I had a woman who had a weekly meal menu ready and we had four of them, so each week was different um. So that she's not getting food boredom along the way, because what was happening was she was just eating the same foods for weeks and weeks and weeks and then she was like no, can't eat that ever again. Um. So we were mixing it up. So we had a weekly, weekly menu for each of the week of the month, so each week it was different um and different flavors. It a lot of the time. So, for an example, monday was a potato day, tuesday was a pasta day and then each every other week, every week, it was a different flavor that was added. So it might have been like a mediterranean and asian, so it was different with the same kind of components, if that makes sense.

Jenn Salib Huber: 31:25

I really liked that idea yeah, those are some great ideas.

Jenn Salib Huber: 31:30

Just to have like themes, right, that you don't have to think about One of the people in my community as well. We've been talking about kind of breakfast, right, and so she works from home and she would normally just kind of go right into kind of her meetings and wasn't realizing that, you know, she was getting too hungry, wasn't satisfied and just, but didn't know what she wanted. And so just doing a bit of like, you know she made a quiche so that she could have like something that was satisfying and that could be part of a meal, but not the only part of the meal, so that she could keep that novelty kind of, you know, top of mind, because with ADHD we don't like boring routine things. We want to be able to have like there needs to be a little bit of like spontaneity, right. That's kind of how we keep our brain engaged in the process. So there's lots of ways to work around that. But I love the idea of like a flavor profile or like a theme of the day pasta day, potato day that's great.

Toni Rudd: 32:26

When you said about people with ADHD struggle with, like food boredom. I do find the breakfast is the most difficult meal for them because I think, again, we're conditioned that breakfast things should be things like oats, porridge, cereal, eggs, and I find a lot of people with ADHD really don't get on with eggs because of the texture. So, like I always kind of say, like there's no rules around breakfast, like you don't have to eat those things, you can have other things for breakfast, and I had someone that would have kind of like um, a bit like a shakshuka, but then also like a hummusy kind of breakfast, um, with a bit of bread and and like a bit of a picky. I call it like a picky breakfast with different things. But we're meeting all the components of a balanced diet.

Jenn Salib Huber: 33:19

That's great. This has been a great discussion. Thank you so much for joining me. And so where can people find you if they want to learn more about you?

Toni Rudd: 33:27

Yeah, so I'm mainly on Instagram at the dark binge dietitian, and my website is also a great platform, which is the binge dietitiancom, and yeah, I'm.

Jenn Salib Huber: 33:42

We'll put those links in the show notes too. Um so, even though you are not in midlife from what I can see, um, what do you think is the missing ingredient in midlife? What do you think is the missing ingredient in midlife? What would you think is the missing ingredient?

Toni Rudd: 33:57

oh, I don't know what other people say, so I feel a bit on the spot um missing midlife ingredient. I would say I'm leaning towards like movement, like particularly strength movement, like like building your muscles and feeling strong. That's kind of goal for me towards my midlife is to keep, keep that up.

How Strength Training Can Support Midlife Health

Jenn Salib Huber: 34:29

I love it. Thank you so much for joining me, tony. Thank you, it's been great chatting. Thank you Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of the midlife feast For more non diet, health, hormone and general midlife support. Click the link in the show notes to learn how you can work and learn from me. And if you enjoyed this episode and found it helpful, please consider leaving a review or subscribing, because it helps other women just like you find us and feel supported in midlife.